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	<title>Comments on: The Echo-Chamber of Public Input</title>
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	<description>a view from mid-America</description>
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		<title>By: lake home.com</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2009/09/the-echo-chamber-of-public-input/comment-page-1/#comment-720</link>
		<dc:creator>lake home.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>congressional country club inc lanebryant jumpers.comfort pierce tribune lake link.comsunday brunch st. louis southern calif. trout pondsharks in ft. pierce the mesa tribunethe tribune of nassau kent burton mesa azfort a.p hill virginia 99.3 coshctoncomercio libre sunrise ft. piercee.u. restaurant new york i. feliciano miamiwww.south park.com carl gustafs stads 6.5mail.yahoo.com 505 jskass tribune.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>congressional country club inc lanebryant jumpers.comfort pierce tribune lake link.comsunday brunch st. louis southern calif. trout pondsharks in ft. pierce the mesa tribunethe tribune of nassau kent burton mesa azfort a.p hill virginia 99.3 coshctoncomercio libre sunrise ft. piercee.u. restaurant new york i. feliciano miamiwww.south park.com carl gustafs stads 6.5mail.yahoo.com 505 jskass tribune.com</p>
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		<title>By: Jay P. Greene</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2009/09/the-echo-chamber-of-public-input/comment-page-1/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay P. Greene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 12:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=687#comment-118</guid>
		<description>Others are picking up the echo-chamber meme.  Over at the Morning News, Doug Thompson writes: &quot;The school board spent years crafting the plan with lots of public input, we&#039;re told again. I meekly submit that a plan that&#039;s voted down by 3 to 2 does not reflect accurately gauged, broad public input.&quot; (http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2009/09/18/columns/doug_thompson/091909thompson.txt )

And Bob Caudle writes: &quot;there are people who don’t listen to the will of the people, are out of touch with the common person and attempt to go spend money willy-nilly planning a pie-in-the-sky project. We call them members of the Fayetteville School Board.&quot; (http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2009/09/19/columns/bob_caudle/092009caudle.txt )

And Brenda Blagg writes: &quot;Significantly, they took false encouragement from polls taken in March and May that suggested they could win. Those poll results were screened to reflect only the views of voters who had participated in special elections over the past few years, not the broader electorate that showed up in record numbers on election day.&quot; (http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2009/09/17/columns/brenda_blagg/091809blagg.txt )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Others are picking up the echo-chamber meme.  Over at the Morning News, Doug Thompson writes: &#8220;The school board spent years crafting the plan with lots of public input, we&#8217;re told again. I meekly submit that a plan that&#8217;s voted down by 3 to 2 does not reflect accurately gauged, broad public input.&#8221; (<a href="http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2009/09/18/columns/doug_thompson/091909thompson.txt" rel="nofollow">http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2009/09/18/columns/doug_thompson/091909thompson.txt</a> )</p>
<p>And Bob Caudle writes: &#8220;there are people who don’t listen to the will of the people, are out of touch with the common person and attempt to go spend money willy-nilly planning a pie-in-the-sky project. We call them members of the Fayetteville School Board.&#8221; (<a href="http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2009/09/19/columns/bob_caudle/092009caudle.txt" rel="nofollow">http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2009/09/19/columns/bob_caudle/092009caudle.txt</a> )</p>
<p>And Brenda Blagg writes: &#8220;Significantly, they took false encouragement from polls taken in March and May that suggested they could win. Those poll results were screened to reflect only the views of voters who had participated in special elections over the past few years, not the broader electorate that showed up in record numbers on election day.&#8221; (<a href="http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2009/09/17/columns/brenda_blagg/091809blagg.txt" rel="nofollow">http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2009/09/17/columns/brenda_blagg/091809blagg.txt</a> )</p>
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		<title>By: Jay P. Greene</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2009/09/the-echo-chamber-of-public-input/comment-page-1/#comment-115</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay P. Greene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=687#comment-115</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, there is no perfect substitute for the election as an indicator of the voice of the people.  But we did just have an election, so there is information there.  Voters said no by a large margin in every area of town and in the highest turnout school election in Fayetteville history.  That is all useful information.

Polling is another useful way for school officials to gather information.  Unfortunately, the poll they commissioned seemed more like a way to gather support for what was already decided than a way to collect information.  The poll was done after most if not all major decisions had been made.  And it is expensive to conduct polls, so school officials can&#039;t employ this technique very often.

In the end, school officials have to act like leaders who gather bits of information from a variety of sources, including public meetings, polls, past elections, and their general familiarity with the community.  And then they have to take all of that information and lead the community toward what they think is educationally desirable but within political feasibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, there is no perfect substitute for the election as an indicator of the voice of the people.  But we did just have an election, so there is information there.  Voters said no by a large margin in every area of town and in the highest turnout school election in Fayetteville history.  That is all useful information.</p>
<p>Polling is another useful way for school officials to gather information.  Unfortunately, the poll they commissioned seemed more like a way to gather support for what was already decided than a way to collect information.  The poll was done after most if not all major decisions had been made.  And it is expensive to conduct polls, so school officials can&#8217;t employ this technique very often.</p>
<p>In the end, school officials have to act like leaders who gather bits of information from a variety of sources, including public meetings, polls, past elections, and their general familiarity with the community.  And then they have to take all of that information and lead the community toward what they think is educationally desirable but within political feasibility.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymoose</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2009/09/the-echo-chamber-of-public-input/comment-page-1/#comment-114</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymoose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=687#comment-114</guid>
		<description>How would you get to the genuine &#039;voice of the people&#039; then?  
Is there a way to conduct the public input process that would ensure less intrusion by consultants and respect a diversity of ideas in the final product?
Or is polling the way to go?
The public needs to be involved.  Let&#039;s not let the mishandling in this particular incident be used as a rationale for disregarding the public&#039;s voice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How would you get to the genuine &#8216;voice of the people&#8217; then?<br />
Is there a way to conduct the public input process that would ensure less intrusion by consultants and respect a diversity of ideas in the final product?<br />
Or is polling the way to go?<br />
The public needs to be involved.  Let&#8217;s not let the mishandling in this particular incident be used as a rationale for disregarding the public&#8217;s voice.</p>
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		<title>By: David Franks</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2009/09/the-echo-chamber-of-public-input/comment-page-1/#comment-108</link>
		<dc:creator>David Franks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=687#comment-108</guid>
		<description>Mr. Greene--

Thank you for your reply. You said in your piece that the breakout groups arrived at the same concepts. They did not. The charrettes were held as a way to gain public input on the physical form of the buiding and they resulted in a variety of physical forms. The fact that the Trail of Tears was given as an underlying concept for the genius loci of the site did not result in the homogeneity you say it did. Most members of the public would not be able to make a connection between &quot;the Trail of Tears&quot; and a school building if they tried. (I will not claim that they would be able to if they had attended the new Fayetteville High School. Aesthetic and symbolic sensitivity in relation to the environment support athletics even less than art and music do.)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Greene&#8211;</p>
<p>Thank you for your reply. You said in your piece that the breakout groups arrived at the same concepts. They did not. The charrettes were held as a way to gain public input on the physical form of the buiding and they resulted in a variety of physical forms. The fact that the Trail of Tears was given as an underlying concept for the genius loci of the site did not result in the homogeneity you say it did. Most members of the public would not be able to make a connection between &#8220;the Trail of Tears&#8221; and a school building if they tried. (I will not claim that they would be able to if they had attended the new Fayetteville High School. Aesthetic and symbolic sensitivity in relation to the environment support athletics even less than art and music do.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jay P. Greene</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2009/09/the-echo-chamber-of-public-input/comment-page-1/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay P. Greene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=687#comment-107</guid>
		<description>David,

I believe that you have misunderstood my post.  I explicitly say that seeking public input was fine.  The problem was in mistaking that input for the voice of the people, which it definitely was not judging from the election result.

Leadership involves combining input from vocal, but atypical participants in public meetings with the leader&#039;s assessment of what is educationally desirable and likely to garner broader popular support.

It&#039;s not easy, and I believe that school officials tried in good faith to gather input.  But I think they gave that input too much weight and failed to anticipate what the broader community might say.

And the way that consultants directed the public discussion was sometimes obvious and heavy-handed, as in the case of Tony Wagner, or more subtle and perhaps even unintentional, as in the case of the Concordia consultants for the charrettes.

If you want to see an indication of how Concordia led the discussion toward the Trail of Tears, see p. 8 of their report: http://www.fayar.net/imagesBoard/FHS_Final_Report.pdf .

On it they provide a &quot;Site Description&quot; that consists of 207 words.  Of those 207 words 89 (43%) were about the Trail of Tears.  It is clearly the most prominent part of the site description that informed the design discussions.

Personally, I like the Trail of Tears theme, but my point is that consultants have a way of leading the discussion in certain directions even when everyone is trying to seek open and diverse input.  That&#039;s a fine thing to do, but no one should mistake it for the voice of the people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>I believe that you have misunderstood my post.  I explicitly say that seeking public input was fine.  The problem was in mistaking that input for the voice of the people, which it definitely was not judging from the election result.</p>
<p>Leadership involves combining input from vocal, but atypical participants in public meetings with the leader&#8217;s assessment of what is educationally desirable and likely to garner broader popular support.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not easy, and I believe that school officials tried in good faith to gather input.  But I think they gave that input too much weight and failed to anticipate what the broader community might say.</p>
<p>And the way that consultants directed the public discussion was sometimes obvious and heavy-handed, as in the case of Tony Wagner, or more subtle and perhaps even unintentional, as in the case of the Concordia consultants for the charrettes.</p>
<p>If you want to see an indication of how Concordia led the discussion toward the Trail of Tears, see p. 8 of their report: <a href="http://www.fayar.net/imagesBoard/FHS_Final_Report.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.fayar.net/imagesBoard/FHS_Final_Report.pdf</a> .</p>
<p>On it they provide a &#8220;Site Description&#8221; that consists of 207 words.  Of those 207 words 89 (43%) were about the Trail of Tears.  It is clearly the most prominent part of the site description that informed the design discussions.</p>
<p>Personally, I like the Trail of Tears theme, but my point is that consultants have a way of leading the discussion in certain directions even when everyone is trying to seek open and diverse input.  That&#8217;s a fine thing to do, but no one should mistake it for the voice of the people.</p>
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		<title>By: The Echo-Chamber of Public Input from Mid-Riffs &#124; Clipped Fresh &#124; Ozarks Unbound</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2009/09/the-echo-chamber-of-public-input/comment-page-1/#comment-106</link>
		<dc:creator>The Echo-Chamber of Public Input from Mid-Riffs &#124; Clipped Fresh &#124; Ozarks Unbound</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=687#comment-106</guid>
		<description>[...] Mid-Riffs . [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mid-Riffs . [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Franks</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2009/09/the-echo-chamber-of-public-input/comment-page-1/#comment-105</link>
		<dc:creator>David Franks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=687#comment-105</guid>
		<description>The tone of the piece and its partial basis on misinformation makes it appear to me that he believes that leadership and public input are mutually exclusive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tone of the piece and its partial basis on misinformation makes it appear to me that he believes that leadership and public input are mutually exclusive.</p>
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		<title>By: JMcGee</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2009/09/the-echo-chamber-of-public-input/comment-page-1/#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>JMcGee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=687#comment-104</guid>
		<description>David, I think you may be misreading Jay&#039;s post.  He did not say that holding public input sessions is a bad idea. He simply states that relying too heavily on this type of input can lead to serious miscalculation. As evidence he cited the very broad defeat of the millage. In the end he encourages, and I think rightly so, our education leadership not to dictate from on high (as you suggest), but to be the leaders they were hired to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, I think you may be misreading Jay&#8217;s post.  He did not say that holding public input sessions is a bad idea. He simply states that relying too heavily on this type of input can lead to serious miscalculation. As evidence he cited the very broad defeat of the millage. In the end he encourages, and I think rightly so, our education leadership not to dictate from on high (as you suggest), but to be the leaders they were hired to be.</p>
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		<title>By: David Franks</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2009/09/the-echo-chamber-of-public-input/comment-page-1/#comment-103</link>
		<dc:creator>David Franks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=687#comment-103</guid>
		<description>The public schools are public. As school facilities are used by the public at large as well as students and serve the public in a number of ways, the public has every right to expect to have some input in developing a schema for a school; I would consider it an obligation.

As I recall, the school district made a broad effort to solicit input for the design of the new school. Meetings and charrettes were held on different days and at different times in order to make it easier for a variety of people to attend. If that wasn&#039;t an adequate approach, blame it on the apathy of the excluded, not the school district. It&#039;s not like the thing was run in secret.

Newspaper reports of the charrettes indicated that the break-out groups came up with different scenarios. (A few of them were displayed on the district&#039;s web site.) When the groups came together, the small-group concept was adopted by consensus. It might have been consensus of the loudest, but it was not a directed result as Mr. Greene claims.

Mr. Greene&#039;s commentary almost sounds as though he thinks parents shouldn&#039;t be engaged in their kids&#039; education. The suggestion that the building scheme should come from on high sounds to me like the same attitude that has led to so many problems in the public schools: the professionals know best; let them take care of everything.

I&#039;m not saying that the school district administration shouldn&#039;t get some hammering for the failure of the millage. But I think that Mr. Greene is using the wrong hammer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The public schools are public. As school facilities are used by the public at large as well as students and serve the public in a number of ways, the public has every right to expect to have some input in developing a schema for a school; I would consider it an obligation.</p>
<p>As I recall, the school district made a broad effort to solicit input for the design of the new school. Meetings and charrettes were held on different days and at different times in order to make it easier for a variety of people to attend. If that wasn&#8217;t an adequate approach, blame it on the apathy of the excluded, not the school district. It&#8217;s not like the thing was run in secret.</p>
<p>Newspaper reports of the charrettes indicated that the break-out groups came up with different scenarios. (A few of them were displayed on the district&#8217;s web site.) When the groups came together, the small-group concept was adopted by consensus. It might have been consensus of the loudest, but it was not a directed result as Mr. Greene claims.</p>
<p>Mr. Greene&#8217;s commentary almost sounds as though he thinks parents shouldn&#8217;t be engaged in their kids&#8217; education. The suggestion that the building scheme should come from on high sounds to me like the same attitude that has led to so many problems in the public schools: the professionals know best; let them take care of everything.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that the school district administration shouldn&#8217;t get some hammering for the failure of the millage. But I think that Mr. Greene is using the wrong hammer.</p>
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