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	<title>Comments for Mid-Riffs</title>
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	<link>http://mid-riffs.com</link>
	<description>a view from mid-America</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 15:16:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s Time for Testing &#8230; And That&#8217;s OK by GRitter</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2011/04/its-time-for-testing-and-thats-ok/comment-page-1/#comment-25522</link>
		<dc:creator>GRitter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 15:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=4364#comment-25522</guid>
		<description>Jon,

Thanks for the note.  I agree that it does not seem worth your time or energy to analyze the exams (you are busy teaching kids!), and I certainly do not mean to imply that they are 100% valid.  But they seem pretty reasonable. My point in the post was that lots of the anti-testing rhetoric is over-stated.

But I also agree that there are all sorts of flaws with our assessment regime.  The tests are given in April but they are supposed to test learning from all year; the results come back more slowly than necessary .. if they came back sooner they could be of more use to educators and kids.

Nevertheless, I am surprised by your generalization that it makes teachers angry and it makes good ones quit.  I am sure that happens sometimes, but I also know of teachers who like to see how well the kids have grasped a year&#039;s worth of work; principals want to judge the effectiveness of their school; and I see lots of positive consequences based on good results.

Here is an example of some positive consequences:

http://www.uark.edu/ua/oep/AER/7_3_2010_Outstanding_Educational_Performance_Awards.pdf

Here&#039;s an essay we wrote after working with lots of teachers in NWA around testing time and were surprised to hear some positives views on tests:

http://www.uark.edu/ua/oep/OpEds/2010_OPED_Teachers_Like_These_Tests_Really.pdf

Nonetheless, thanks for your post ... I would love to figure out a way for us to get all the useful information provided by testing without some of the negatives you describe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon,</p>
<p>Thanks for the note.  I agree that it does not seem worth your time or energy to analyze the exams (you are busy teaching kids!), and I certainly do not mean to imply that they are 100% valid.  But they seem pretty reasonable. My point in the post was that lots of the anti-testing rhetoric is over-stated.</p>
<p>But I also agree that there are all sorts of flaws with our assessment regime.  The tests are given in April but they are supposed to test learning from all year; the results come back more slowly than necessary .. if they came back sooner they could be of more use to educators and kids.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, I am surprised by your generalization that it makes teachers angry and it makes good ones quit.  I am sure that happens sometimes, but I also know of teachers who like to see how well the kids have grasped a year&#8217;s worth of work; principals want to judge the effectiveness of their school; and I see lots of positive consequences based on good results.</p>
<p>Here is an example of some positive consequences:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.uark.edu/ua/oep/AER/7_3_2010_Outstanding_Educational_Performance_Awards.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.uark.edu/ua/oep/AER/7_3_2010_Outstanding_Educational_Performance_Awards.pdf</a></p>
<p>Here&#8217;s an essay we wrote after working with lots of teachers in NWA around testing time and were surprised to hear some positives views on tests:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.uark.edu/ua/oep/OpEds/2010_OPED_Teachers_Like_These_Tests_Really.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.uark.edu/ua/oep/OpEds/2010_OPED_Teachers_Like_These_Tests_Really.pdf</a></p>
<p>Nonetheless, thanks for your post &#8230; I would love to figure out a way for us to get all the useful information provided by testing without some of the negatives you describe.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s Time for Testing &#8230; And That&#8217;s OK by Jon</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2011/04/its-time-for-testing-and-thats-ok/comment-page-1/#comment-25520</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2011 04:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=4364#comment-25520</guid>
		<description>As a public educator, I have neither the time nor the energy to thoroughly analyze Arkansas&#039; benchmark exams, so I&#039;m left not knowing whether they are worth the time and money we spend on them or not.  Even, however, if I were to take your word for it and conclude that they are all 100% valid and useful assessments, there is one thing I know for sure: the current system makes teachers angry, and it makes many of the good ones quit the profession.  Why?  Because the good ones can go to other professions, such as law, social work, or business, with more sensible systems.  Our testing  system offers only negative consequences, such as the public humiliation of &quot;school improvement&quot; status  to schools and educators whose students do not pass these tests.  The system offers nothing positive for those whose students do well.  &quot;What&#039;s in it for us?&quot; we in the profession ask?  You may see this attitute as petty, but it&#039;s what we really think, and it&#039;s what&#039;s chasing many of us away from teaching in public schools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a public educator, I have neither the time nor the energy to thoroughly analyze Arkansas&#8217; benchmark exams, so I&#8217;m left not knowing whether they are worth the time and money we spend on them or not.  Even, however, if I were to take your word for it and conclude that they are all 100% valid and useful assessments, there is one thing I know for sure: the current system makes teachers angry, and it makes many of the good ones quit the profession.  Why?  Because the good ones can go to other professions, such as law, social work, or business, with more sensible systems.  Our testing  system offers only negative consequences, such as the public humiliation of &#8220;school improvement&#8221; status  to schools and educators whose students do not pass these tests.  The system offers nothing positive for those whose students do well.  &#8220;What&#8217;s in it for us?&#8221; we in the profession ask?  You may see this attitute as petty, but it&#8217;s what we really think, and it&#8217;s what&#8217;s chasing many of us away from teaching in public schools.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s Time for Testing &#8230; And That&#8217;s OK by GRitter</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2011/04/its-time-for-testing-and-thats-ok/comment-page-1/#comment-25519</link>
		<dc:creator>GRitter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Apr 2011 16:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=4364#comment-25519</guid>
		<description>In our next post, we&#039;ll poke fun at some of the outrageous claims made by the most outrageous of the anti-testing anti-NCLB crowd ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In our next post, we&#8217;ll poke fun at some of the outrageous claims made by the most outrageous of the anti-testing anti-NCLB crowd &#8230;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on KIPP &#8211; New Target in School Reform Battles by GRitter</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2011/04/kipp-new-target-in-school-reform-battles/comment-page-1/#comment-25515</link>
		<dc:creator>GRitter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=4337#comment-25515</guid>
		<description>By the way, the news on this front in Arkansas is good (in my view).  While there are vigorous debates about the effectiveness or merit of charter schools, even the most ardent critics of charters in Arkansas acknowledge the good work done by KIPP with students who generally do not succeed in our education system.  Bravo to Arkansas!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, the news on this front in Arkansas is good (in my view).  While there are vigorous debates about the effectiveness or merit of charter schools, even the most ardent critics of charters in Arkansas acknowledge the good work done by KIPP with students who generally do not succeed in our education system.  Bravo to Arkansas!</p>
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		<title>Comment on History 101 by Mike Anderson's New Best Friend</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2011/03/history-101/comment-page-1/#comment-25514</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Anderson's New Best Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=4302#comment-25514</guid>
		<description>There aren&#039;t enough days in the year as it is to cover all the historical material of the last few millennia, but sure, let&#039;s add a Bible study class.  

Acknowledge its influence?  Fine (although this is already done across the nation).  But the bill as quoted above appears to seek more than that.

If only there were a place that offered young people a chance to learn about the Bible . . . maybe they could meet on Sundays?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There aren&#8217;t enough days in the year as it is to cover all the historical material of the last few millennia, but sure, let&#8217;s add a Bible study class.  </p>
<p>Acknowledge its influence?  Fine (although this is already done across the nation).  But the bill as quoted above appears to seek more than that.</p>
<p>If only there were a place that offered young people a chance to learn about the Bible . . . maybe they could meet on Sundays?</p>
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		<title>Comment on History 101 by Copy of bankruptcy discharge papers</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2011/03/history-101/comment-page-1/#comment-25513</link>
		<dc:creator>Copy of bankruptcy discharge papers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=4302#comment-25513</guid>
		<description>Get copy of Bankruptcy discharge papers, bankruptcy creditors listing at lowest cost on web. You can order either of  bankruptcy discharge papers, Creditor listing or complete bankruptcy file as per your needs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Get copy of Bankruptcy discharge papers, bankruptcy creditors listing at lowest cost on web. You can order either of  bankruptcy discharge papers, Creditor listing or complete bankruptcy file as per your needs.</p>
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		<title>Comment on No Issue too Small for Super Nanny Sue Madison by Julee</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2011/02/no-issue-too-small-for-super-nanny-sue-madison/comment-page-1/#comment-25505</link>
		<dc:creator>Julee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Mar 2011 01:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=4220#comment-25505</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m involved in an Arkansas movement to allow direct shipment of wine (like they have in Missouri).  I&#039;ve been talking to my legislators about it, and they directed me to Sue Madison.

When I talked to her about it she said that the shipment bill she was working on was only for a specific constituent.  She noted that shipping wine directly to consumers is a problem--underage and collecting state taxes.

She was not concerned that 37 of the 50 states allow wine shipments and seem not to have any problems with underage drinking or tax collection.  

If she had a real problem with lost revenue and underage drinking, she would make it illegal for the Arkansas Wineries to directly ship wine out of state.  Think about the children and lost revenue!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m involved in an Arkansas movement to allow direct shipment of wine (like they have in Missouri).  I&#8217;ve been talking to my legislators about it, and they directed me to Sue Madison.</p>
<p>When I talked to her about it she said that the shipment bill she was working on was only for a specific constituent.  She noted that shipping wine directly to consumers is a problem&#8211;underage and collecting state taxes.</p>
<p>She was not concerned that 37 of the 50 states allow wine shipments and seem not to have any problems with underage drinking or tax collection.  </p>
<p>If she had a real problem with lost revenue and underage drinking, she would make it illegal for the Arkansas Wineries to directly ship wine out of state.  Think about the children and lost revenue!</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Much Do Public Employee Benefits Cost in Milwaukee?&#8230;74.2 Cents for Every Dollar in Pay by Josh McGee</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2011/02/how-much-do-public-employee-benefits-cost-in-milwaukee-74-2-cents-for-every-dollar-in-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-25487</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh McGee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 20:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=4230#comment-25487</guid>
		<description>Hi, Mpetty. I&#039;m not sure that we have a resource allocation problem. In other words, I do not think more money for schools will fix the schools, and I do not think that taking money from the rich is the long term solution to our inequality problem. 

There is a wealth of research demonstrating that more spending on education does not equal better outcomes. Education spending per pupil has more than doubled in real terms since 1970, and yet achievement remained flat over that period. Only Luxembourg spends more per pupil than the U.S. Simply throwing more money at the system is clearly not the answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Mpetty. I&#8217;m not sure that we have a resource allocation problem. In other words, I do not think more money for schools will fix the schools, and I do not think that taking money from the rich is the long term solution to our inequality problem. </p>
<p>There is a wealth of research demonstrating that more spending on education does not equal better outcomes. Education spending per pupil has more than doubled in real terms since 1970, and yet achievement remained flat over that period. Only Luxembourg spends more per pupil than the U.S. Simply throwing more money at the system is clearly not the answer.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Much Do Public Employee Benefits Cost in Milwaukee?&#8230;74.2 Cents for Every Dollar in Pay by mpetty</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2011/02/how-much-do-public-employee-benefits-cost-in-milwaukee-74-2-cents-for-every-dollar-in-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-25486</link>
		<dc:creator>mpetty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 20:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=4230#comment-25486</guid>
		<description>Which came first? The chicken or the egg?

Postulating that it is better to spend money on fixing education than it is to fix wealth inequality is nonsensical. It&#039;s not that it&#039;s wrong and spending money first on the other is right; it&#039;s that we have the resources to fix both and our elected leader lack the fortitude to do either.

FWIW, I didn&#039;t detect any anger. Just some friendly, honest discussion. Usually better over drinks..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which came first? The chicken or the egg?</p>
<p>Postulating that it is better to spend money on fixing education than it is to fix wealth inequality is nonsensical. It&#8217;s not that it&#8217;s wrong and spending money first on the other is right; it&#8217;s that we have the resources to fix both and our elected leader lack the fortitude to do either.</p>
<p>FWIW, I didn&#8217;t detect any anger. Just some friendly, honest discussion. Usually better over drinks..</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Much Do Public Employee Benefits Cost in Milwaukee?&#8230;74.2 Cents for Every Dollar in Pay by BKisida</title>
		<link>http://mid-riffs.com/2011/02/how-much-do-public-employee-benefits-cost-in-milwaukee-74-2-cents-for-every-dollar-in-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-25485</link>
		<dc:creator>BKisida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 20:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mid-riffs.com/?p=4230#comment-25485</guid>
		<description>Well, you fail to mention that the correlation between family income and student achievement is largely driven by the correlation between family income and school quality.  

If only there were a way to give poor kids equal access to the best schools in a community...hmm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you fail to mention that the correlation between family income and student achievement is largely driven by the correlation between family income and school quality.  </p>
<p>If only there were a way to give poor kids equal access to the best schools in a community&#8230;hmm</p>
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